by lwertheimer | October 4th, 2011
Please respond to at least two of the following questions on the Resnick article.
1). Why did clerics in the eleventh and twelfth centuries care about what makes a marriage valid?
2). How did the clerical “model” of marriage differ from the lay model?
3). On p. 358, Resnick quotes Dyan Elliott as saying “From the standpoint of societal structure, a clerical celibate elite requires a copulating laity.” What does she mean by this, and what does it have to do with an article on marriage?
4). What problem did the marriage of Mary and Joseph pose for medieval marriage theorists?
1) Clerics of the eleventh and twelfth centuries were concerned with what validated marriage for several reasons. They main cause was the question of spiritual marriage as a higher stage of being regarding Mary’s perpetual virginity. If Mary were to be considered a perpetual virgin, by the definition of the time, the marriage to Joseph could not have been valid. If marriage can be valid without consummation it would cause a validation of the marriage of Joseph and Mary and make such a state acceptable thereby being as divine as the virgin mother’s union.
2) The lay model of marriage was one that had features such as the succession of personal property and reasons that fell to political and economic spheres. Children were expected from these unions because it was a consolidation of power or property to make a family more prosperous. The clerical model presented in the article is one of a “spiritual union” wherein a couple does not procreate and instead remains celibate in attempts to reflect their piety as the perpetual virgin’s Jesus and his mother had. If they lived in such a state than the clergy should as well.
3) Elliot is pointing out that the clergy and the laity needs to have very distinct differences to separate them from one another. The lines dividing them must be clear because each hold different statuses.
4) Joseph and Mary’s marriage was a problem because the belief that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. Though books in the bible speak about Jesus’ siblings the debate rages that Mary and Joseph never consummated the marriage. This fact alone makes the marriage problematic because of the definition of laity marriage at the time. If there was no consummation than the marriage wasn’t valid. The medieval scholars are, in a way, caught in a catch twenty-two.
3). On p. 358, Resnick quotes Dyan Elliott as saying “From the standpoint of societal structure, a clerical celibate elite requires a copulating laity.”
Elliott means that to clearly separate the clerical elite from the laity in a social status, they could not ban the laity from having sex, even when the Cathars were saying reproduction was an evil.
4). What problem did the marriage of Mary and Joseph pose for medieval marriage theorists?
Medieval theorists argues whether or not Mary and Joseph did have sexual relations. Early writers believed they did so and went on to have four more children. However, some in the fourth century argued that Mary stayed a virgin for the rest of her life.
2.) How did the clerical “model” of marriage differ from the lay model?
The clerical model of marriage had different features than that of the lay model of marriage during the 11h and 12th centuries. In the clerical model, which was rooted from Roman Law, the power of heads of families was limited and the emphasis on the consent of both the male and the female, and although requested, parental consent was not required. In contrast, the lay model, especially in noble families, marriages were seen as agreements and pacts among families for political gain, security, money, power, and prestige. Families would betroth their daughters and without their daughters consent, would marry them to a man of their choosing. Another factor that clerical marriage did not emphasize in their model of marriage that lay marriage did was the consummation of the marriage with sexual intercourse. For lay marriage, the union between husband and wife was often not seen valid or legal until the couple consummates the marriage. Clerical marriages attempted to sway from this thought to preserve the Gregorian reform that required all members of the clergy to remain and be celibate.
4.) What problem did the marriage of Mary and Joseph pose for medieval theorists?
The problem that medieval theorists had with the marriage of Mary and Joseph is that the image of Mary as being the celestial virgin who gave birth to the son of God and having sons after the birth of Jesus with Joseph. The church preserved the image of Jesus and his chastity as the relationship between Jesus and His church a religious and spiritual marriage rather than a carnal marriage that is suggested Mary and Joseph had after the birth of Jesus. The church believed that the only marriage a member of the clergy needed was the marriage that was between you and God, the same Jesus had. This marriage was believed to be one that even lasted past death, that after taking this vow and joining this union, nothing can break it. For lay marriages, this posed problems when the concept of sexual intercourse as a seal of an official marriage was seen as sinful to the church.
1) Clerics during the eleventh and twelfth centuries sought to restrict marriage within the clergy, extend power over the laity by involving the clergy in the marriage process and preserve the righteousness of key religious figures (Mary and Joseph) by defining what makes a marriage valid.
Clerical marriage was an issue because it rejected the example set by Jesus. Clergymen were to find satisfaction in spirit and not in flesh.
The clergy could gain more influence over the laity if unions were granted though clerical rule. It would steal power from wealthy families which continually intermarried.
The clergy had to be careful when defining the validity of marriage in order to maintain the reputation of the mother of Jesus. Her “perpetual virginity” being vital to religious thinking meant that marriage did not have to be consummated, as was commonly thought by many.
2) The clerical model of marriage was the spiritual union between the clergyman and the God the Father. One was celibate and completely dedicated to the service of God. The clergy followed the example given in the Scriptures of the relationship between God and the Church.
The lay model of marriage involved the consent of the persons and the sexual union upon marriage. However, the terms and importance of both factors came under scrutiny by means of the clergy.
2.) In the lay model of marriage, particularly for the upper class, families tended to arrange marriages for their children. They would make some form of contract or pact concerning the marriage and give either a dowry to the groom or provide a bride price for the bride. After the marriage, the couple would end up sexually consummating it in order to secure the future of and continue the family line. In this model, the consent of the couple being married was not required, particularly for the bride, whose attendance of the wedding alone was taken to be a form of consent and/or obedience to her parents. It was not even uncommon for the laity to marry off their children to a closely related family member in order to preserve the family inheritance and/or blood appliances. In contrast, the church saw marrying even a persons sixth cousin as incest.
Members of the clergy were encouraged not to marry at all and ultimately the church had a hard time defining exactly what made a marriage official. They ultimately viewed marriage as being a religiously significant sacrament and desired to have as much control over the practice as possible. A preferable model used by most members of the clergy was the Ecclesiastical Model. This said that the consent of both the future bride and groom was enough cause/justification for a marriage. Though the consent of the parents may have been appreciated in this model, it was ultimately seen as unnecessary. Also, the idea of consent being the necessary requirement for a marriage was used by many clergymen as a way to tone down or get rid of the additional laity requirement of consummation between the spouses.
4.) Because of all the confusion concerning what defined an official marriage, it cause questions to be brought up concerning the marriage of Mary and Joseph. The bible claims that Mary was both a virgin and Joseph’s wife, yet the marriage between the two would not have been officially consummated while Mary was pregnant with Jesus. Since scripture tends to refer to even betrothed woman as wives people were at first content to say that the marriage was later consummated after the birth of Jesus, causing Mary to give birth to his brothers that were later mentioned in the bible. However, others argued in favor of the virginity of Mary and proclaimed that the marriage was never consummated at all and that both Mary and Joseph ultimately remained celibate throughout their lifetimes. Thus, a debate arose over the exact relationship shared by Joseph and Mary. One proposal brought forth by Simon of Tournai said that Mary and Joseph did not have the perfect marriage by todays standards due to the lack of sexual intercourse and thus through the current church law the two could have been divorced, but since back then Mary and Joseph would have been going by the laws of Moses, a mutual consent by both parties would have been more than enough to give them an official marriage and make a divorce impossible.
In response to question 1: After reviewing the article I think clerics cared about marriage as an extension of the Gregorian reforms: two reasons that I saw – The first one we discussed in class: the reforms came about to restore a level of dignity to ecclesiastical offices and to make religious leaders more pious so they could better administer pastoral care. The second reason I noted was because secular leaders used marriage as a tool to build alliances and control inheritance. Although this was perfectly acceptable from a lay perspective clergy probably felt that the use of marriage by nobles for their own ends devalued the significance of the sacrament to some degree (see page 353.)
In response to question 3: The concept of clerical elite is the whole reason why the Gregorian reform is pushing celibacy. The clergy argued that those who are celibate are closer to God and fit to lead spiritually. The problem is if everyone were to adopt celibacy than the clergy would lose their moral high ground. So the leaders of the clergy say sex for reproduction is good while at the same time implying a shade of guilt for all sex not related to procreation. They support these claims of a more perfect union with God by citing the fall of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden (see page 356.)
1. Clerics in the 11th and 12th century were facing the Gregorian reform which attempted to destroy Clerical marriages. the Clerics were most concerned over what makes a marriage valid for a few reasons. number one the reformers saw clerical marriage as a sin and should not be happening. clergy members should follow the path of god and never marry. the second reason was the new idea that clergy members should be practicing the idea of chasity which cant exsist in a marriage. the third reason for their caring is that they wanted to follow in the path of Jesus would did not marry and the clergy shouldnt either.
2. the clerical marriage idea and the lay model of marriage differed in several ways. the clerical model of marriage was that a clergy member can marry a woman but practice a spiritual marriage where there is no consummation of the marriage and they stay clear of sexual relations in order to get closer to god. the lay model of marriage was usually for the nobility in where there were arrainged marriages in order for both families to come up on top in their villages. some did it for economic reasons if a family couldnt pay their debt they would marry off one of their daughters. they also did it to keep alliances in order so that the families could remain close allies with each other. the lay model also practiced the idea of consammation of a marriage so the couple could produce children to keep the family lineage. they did not practice the spiritual marriage where there was no sexual relations.
Response for question 1
Ecclesiastical authorities began to care about what makes a marriage valid because they wanted to eliminate clerical marriage. They also wanted to have more control over the social and religious institution of marriage since it was viewed by them as a holy sacrament. Also, during this time the things that would make a marriage invalid were poorly defined in theology.
Response for question 2
The lay model of marriage included a marriage pact agreed upon by the heads of the households, an exchange of property, and consummation of the union by having sex. The clerical model seems to have only needed the participating parties to give their consent which was valued over parental consent.
1) Clerics in the 11th and 12th century began to care about what makes a marriage valid because of the Gregorian reform movement. Clerics wanted their members to find satisfaction in the spiritual sense rather than through marriage to a woman, thus following Jesus’ path. The clerics saw marriage as a religious sacrament and thus they should preside over what makes a marriage valid and invalid. They wanted to preserve the figures of Joseph and Mary and extend their influence over the leity.
2) The lay model often saw heads of families offering their daughters to other families sons for marriage to create alliances or pacts between the two families. This would all happen with little influence from the daughter on who she would want to marry. Sometimes even family members got married. Marriage was usually seen as a way to promote an economic or political advantage. Lay families believed that to make a marriage valid the couple had to consummate the marriage first.
The clergy were influenced by Joseph and Mary and believed that a marriage could be valid without sexual relations thus maintaining Mary’s virginity although she was described as the wife of Joseph. The marriage was to be spiritual and marriage was restricted for members of the clergy. The Clergy did not require the consent of the heads of families thus eliminating the marriages between families for economic or political reasons.
1)Clerics in the 11th and 12th were concerned about the validity of marriage as a way to strengthen the Church and it’s influence. The validity of marriage also reflected about the validity of the Church: was Mary & Joseph a married couple? The idea of consummation was appropriate for helping to unify a marriage, so to have Mary a virgin was questioning the concept of marriage.
2) The difference between a clerical marriage and a lay marriage is simple: one is frowned upon while the other is encouraged and even expected. However, before completely outlawing the clergy’s right to marriage they were to have a spiritual bond and not a physical one.
1. Clerics in the 11th and 12th cared deeply about what exactly constituted a valid marriage. Beginning with the Gregorian reform, the question of clerical celibacy was a strongly contested situation and formulation of a clear and concise definition of marriage helped to determine the outcome of priests and high ranking officials in the church from dissuading them getting married. Remaining celibate and living a life similar to that of Jesus, a clear definition of marriage would not allow priests to marry. This definition would also prove to dispel laity from gaining high ranking positions in the church from the result of inheritance and primogeniture of property and position. The church had long suffered from laity gaining influence in the church from these practices and by furthering developing a clear definition of marriage it would help eliminate the consequences of lay interference.
4. The marriage of Joseph and Mary caused significant problems to the church and to the definition of marriage. As the biblical story of the conception of Christ was that of immaculacy, the union of Mary and Joseph was viewed as being invalid in the eyes of the church. Since a legal marriage consisted of two factors, consent of both parties and to the consummation of the marriage through sexual intercourse, the marriage of Joseph and Mary was deemed invalid. This situation caused theorists of the time to speculate on the validity of the holy families to be in question, the terms of marriage had to be put into context of two distinct forms of marriages, holy and lay. Furthermore, as evidence by the bible and scripture, Mary is regarded as the wife of Joseph and which in legality would mean that the marriage has possessed the proper requirements of being legal with the consent of both parties to wed and to the issue of sexual intercourse. Since it has often been viewed that Mary had a virgin her whole life, this caused a problem to the sense of Josephs relation to Jesus and to the legality of the union of Mary and Joseph.
1) The church began to care about marrige simply because they saw the benefit of gaining control over it, by creating a system where the church validates marrige. The lack of any clear definition helped them exploit this. Furthermore The church sought to create a wall between lay people and the clergy by forcing celibacy on those within the church. This was suppose take the church to a higher level of spirituality and separate itself from the secular world.
3) Essentially what the quote is saying is that it is necessary for the lay people to copulate if celibacy is to really have any true meaning within the church. If both were to practice celibacy the church would lose any distinction from having gone through the situation. Furthermore if the laity were to become celibate it would threaten the church’s future security of having a laity to serve.
Response question 2
Marriage was based on consent and most in that time was out of need not what the woman wanted, so the marriages were arranged
based on the need land granted and wedding dowries and they felt that the marriage was not complete until it was consummated. So to join families parents often arranged marriages.
Response question 4
Since Mary was a virgin and had children, the question was raised how could this be if the marriage was never consummated with Joseph. It was also said that Joseph could leave Mary since the marriage was never consummated. The choice of Joseph staying with Mary as a protector rather than husband. That has become a strange matter since they only talk about the women virginity and not the mans, just as women are raped since she had a child it became consensual how? As with the story of Mary and Joseph we have no prof, only what we are told, the church was never able to prove one way or the other.
2) Marriage between the lay and clergy had some distinct differences during the 11th and 12th century. According to Resnick’s article lay marriages had much to do with gain. A family would marry just for the purposes of political and, what motivates the world, money. They would also marry in the family to insure inheritance and possibly pride. While the lay’s motives were less altruistic the clergy thought of the marriage as a sacred event between two equal individuals. Another feature that is different is the concept of consummating the marriage was encouraged while the clergy were seeking to avoid this ritual.
4) The problem with Mary and Joseph’s marriage proposed that while Mary was a virgin even after Jesus’ birth, means that the wedding was never consummated. According to lay marriage custom this means the wedding was not valid and that meant Mary was pregnant with out officially being married. This is viewed as a religious taboo and scholars argued over for many years.
3). On p. 358, Resnick quotes Dyan Elliott as saying “From the standpoint of societal structure, a clerical celibate elite requires a copulating laity.” What does she mean by this, and what does it have to do with an article on marriage?
To keep the distinction between clergy and the laity, there must not be any boundaries set on sexual relations between married couples. Without a copulating laity, there would be no future for the church. However, the clergy was to continue to receive the benefits of sexual abstinence. It fits in an article based on marriage because it gives guidelines for both the clergy and laity.
4). What problem did the marriage of Mary and Joseph pose for medieval marriage theorists?
The lack of intercourse between the two became problematic when trying to decide whether the sacrament of marriage was truly fulfilled. Spiritual marriages had been elevated, and while Mary and Joseph were spiritually married, they hadn’t completed the sacrament of marriage properly. If they weren’t married, Mary was to be considered an unwed mother, an act deemed unacceptable at the time. The distinction then between marriages of the clergy and laity would be less if the lay people followed the marriage model put forth by Mary and Joseph.
1. The clergy sees it necessary to have a clear definition of what makes a marriage valid because if the institution of marriage remains poorly defined in canon law then laws that attempt to prohibite, invalidate and control it are vague and uncertain. In order to institute the rule of clerical celibacy as a part of Gregorian reform they must be able to define marital validity in order to judge whether clercial marriages that took place before the rule was enacted will remain valid or not.
2. Laylords see marriage as a economic and political agreement in order to maintain power and secure the family name/lineage. it is an arrangement intended for mutual benefit of the participating families, with the exchange/promise of dowry and alliance, as well as consummation intended to result in heirs. The consent of the couple matters little; it is their parents who decided and they obeyed. The clergy, on the other hand, sees marriage as a sacrement, and because it is of great religious significance, they desire control over the social institution as well. They see consent of the couple as more important, and debate the subordination or elimination of the requirement of sexual relations.
1. The clergy wanted to clearly and legally define what constitutes a marriage because it affected lay people. In the nobility marriage was used as a political and economic tool. Inheritances, patrimony, and networks of alliances were involved in marriage. The clergy had direct relationships and interests in the nobility and therefore wanted to clearly define roles.
2. The clerical model of marriage included spirituality and the role religion played in the couple’s union. The lay model consisted mainly legal and economic issues.
1. Seems to be by the wording and text that clergy was concerned about the validity of marriage if it involved a sexual union or just an agreement between the husband and wife. If marriage did require a sexual union then this was a concrete reason that a sworn to celibacy clergymen could not become married. This also gave rise to the relationship between Joseph and Mary. If she in fact lived and died as a virgin how were Joseph and her married if marriage required a civil union? These are questions that puzzled and concerned the clergy.
2. The lay model depended on your station in the roles of economy. Rich and powerful families in the middle ages would arrange marriage as a way to improve their monetary and land statuses and be able to provide these things for their ancestry. This led to a lot of marriages that had very little to do with consent of the bride or groom.
The clergy believed that the consent of the bride and groom was more important than heads of family deciding the fate of their children. This was what the lower classes were able to do but not the upper class laity. The church also seeing marriage as a sacrament was trying to gain control of the institution of marriage.
The answer to question one takes many forms. Let this aspiring student of medival history attempt to what this student perceives to be most important. First it is about social and economic control,secondly it is about demarcating a line between those who convey the word of God and those who accept the commandments. In addition it is about creating a proper relationship between theory and practice.
To expand on the first point it should be remembered that amongst the laity marriage was about passing wealth, power and influence to the legitament heirs that being so if the church could influence the distribution of these attributes it would greatly enhance the power and prestige of the church but only as long as the laity thought that the clergy had the spiritual authority to make such pronouncements.
This student thinks that since most men in this part of the world and at this time looked at women as the enbodiment of evil and that intercourse was in itself an evil any person that was a virgin certainly any man that was a virgin was closer to the likeness of Jesus purer,more righteous in the sight of God. This would draw a sharp line between the celebate clergy and the laity giving the moral high ground to the church during the time of the Gregorian reforms when the church was seeking the moral high ground in order to wrest control of church authority from the nobles, kings,
and emperors. Therefore those living the celebate life style Jesus would now have the moral authority to issue edits in the name of God because of their moral purity
Theory and practice had to coincide so as to reduce confusion or to deflect any intellectual attacks against the churches position on sex and marriage. This dichotomy between theory and practice continues on even to the 21st century.
First of all if laity and the clerics of the church were to practice celebatecy the group would die out in a few generations or less however I do not think that is what Dyan Elliott is trying to convey in the quote that Resnick uses in her paper. The idea that Resnick is relaying is that to draw that line between the ones who have a right no a spiritual obligation to save your soul must be pure by being celebate and thusly earning the authority to tell the laity how to live and die.
2) The clerical model of marriage was that the person who decided to lead a spiritual life (monk, priest, nun) would be completely dedicated to the church. If he or she married a mortal person, they the responsibilities and expectations of a regular marriage would be required from them. They would have to take care of their wife/husband and produce children. They would be weighed down with other concerns that may come with having a family, such as feeding them, taking care of them when they are ill, providing a place of them to live, etc. A spiritual marriage to the church took care of that problem. As the church felt, any priest should act as Christ did, wherein he is totally devoted to the church. Here is where the person stayed celibate and did not partake in any type of sexual relationship. He is able to focus on his study and worship of God. This is the closest a human can get to the great creator and considered one of the most intimate bonds that can be formed. Lay people on the other hand were to receive the sacrament of marriage by the church and then seal it with the consummation in the martial bed. It was their responsibility to reproduce and carry on the human species. Lay people who were married were expected to provide sexual relations to each other as part of the marriage contract. The church wanted these individuals sexually active, because having a sexless marriage would put them on the level of the priests and the church didn’t want that.
4) I believe that the “problem” of the marriage of Mary and Joseph was in how the church was going to spin the history to meet their needs. What I mean by this, is that the church wanted to have the position that Mary and Joseph stayed celibate during their marriage, never having sexual relations of any kind and only having Jesus as their child. By living this life of caring for Jesus as his own child and preserving Mary’s virginity, Joseph agreed to a spiritual marriage with the church. Therefore, these two individuals lived a pure life devoted to God that all people, especially the clergy should live. They bound themselves to a spiritual marriage of perfection. I think that if the church could convince the priests that this union existed it would be easier for them to enforce their demand that priests don’t marry. I think this is what truly happened. Reason being is that eighteen years of Jesus’ life is missing from the New Testament. Next, there is rarely anything written about Joseph and Mary regarding their marriage or personal life, as they weren’t the focus of the writings, Jesus was. And, for Mary to consummate her marriage to Joseph would not have taken away from the fact that she was a virgin when she conceived Jesus. The idea of a virgin birth still stands and in no way discredits her. If Joseph was willing to marry her and protect her from the gossip regarding her pregnancy, I am sure he must have loved her. After a period of time, love grows and it will eventually be expressed. I am sure he wanted children of his own, and that they may have had or tried to have more children. Even though nothing is written about any siblings in the gospels, does not mean that they didn’t exist.
2.) The Gregorian reform brought many reforms about the issue of marriage and the clergy. The clergy were to remain celibate as it directly interfered with the oath of their marriage to God and continuance of a spiritual path/life. The clergy were also to live a life of poverty. Marriage in the medieval ages was an agreement between two head of houses that exchanged monetary, property or power for a marriage union. This was prohibited by the church for the clergy but regularly practiced by laypeople. Later in time, there was an argument that a marriage was not considered a marriage if it wasn’t consummated. This would later be considered a spiritual union, in which both parties are virgins remaining together for companionship/protection.
4). Mary and Joseph’s marriage posed an issue to medieval marriage theorists. On one hand, Mary was a forever considered a virgin in the Church’s eyes, with a marriage to God akin to Jesus and God, and with a spiritual union with Joseph. On the other hand, we know that this is not the case, as Mary, after giving birth to Jesus, went on to have multiple children. The Church states that her marriage to Joseph was not consummated when she gave birth to Jesus so her marriage to Joseph is not officially recognized. They refer to Joseph as her companion, protector and that he could have left her at any time but stayed because he loved her.